Mossy Oak Forum / Hunting / Black Powder / Educate me... / Latest Posts

RE: Educate me...

rsm122 — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:29:44 GMT

The first thing you have to realize is that a muzzle loading gun is just that, muzzle loading. No two guns are going to shoot the same. Your best friend may say his gun does this or that. It don't matter. I have been shooting a Thompson, set trigger, cap lock for years "renegade". I wouldn't trade it for any three of the new in-lines. You have to run a mess of bullets through you own gun trying different amounts of powder to find out what works best for you and your gun. I use aprx. 90 grains of pyrodrex powder. Any more and accuracy suffers. I like the new CVA power belt bullets myself. They are true to caliber and easier to load. If you shoot sabots they are one caliber size smaller than stated to allow the fit of the sabot skirt which overlaps the slug.
I guess though, that the main reason for my preference for cap-locks over in-lines is simple fun. When I am hunting or shooting and long distance accuracy is the only point I have a 30-0-6. When I get out the smoke pole it is for the fun of a more primitive weapon. I have to be a better shooter and hunter. Nothing against in-lines I just enjoy shooting my Renegade and I leave that new Magnum In-line in the gun case.

RE: Educate me...

roritch — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:33:56 GMT

You've gotten some good advice. I'm going to add my two cents worth. I have hunted with T/C muzzleloaders for over thirty years and they have never left me down. I have an Omega 50 caliber that is a hole cutter and you can't ask more than that out of a muzzleloader. I use American Pioneer Powder (Jim Shockey's Gold Pellets) because they burn extra clean and I don't need to clean my bore between shots in the field. I use T/C XTP sabots because they have performed well for me. Reguardless of which muzzleloader you choose you are going to need to practice, practice and practice so that everything becomes second nature to you. Find someone who shares your interest in muzzleloading, join a hunting club,etc., and gleen some of their knowledge and love of the sport. It is always more fun when there are others to share the sport with.

RE: Educate me...

Elk_Chaser — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:50:30 GMT

Pabowhunter,

Yes, I am an Idaho resident, but I am currently in Europe and was unable to hunt during 2007. I decided to check out the regulations online and couldn't believe what they did to the muzzleloader rules and regulations. I expected them to allow 209 primers since it is getting harder all the time to find a muzzleloader that uses percussion or musket caps, but they went to the other extreme.

Interestingly, they went the other way for archery...let offs to 85% and 300 grain arrows are now allowed! This is after I spent lots of time and money tuning for 411 grain arrows on a 65% let-off bow (65% let-off was getting hard to find at the time).

I'll stop hijacking this thread now!

RE: Educate me...

pabowhunter — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:36 GMT

Elk-chaser, your in Idaho aren't you. I was surprised to see them be outlaw there. Do you know if there are other states out there considering on following their lead?

RE: Educate me...

Elk_Chaser — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:23:58 GMT

I shoot a Remington 700ML, they stopped making them a few years ago, but they are fairly inexpensive on the used market when you can find them. I bought that rifle because it was familiar to me and I felt that would make it safer to use when I was just starting out. Basically it felt like all of the Rem Model 700's and Winchester Model 70's I had used all of my life and the safety was in the same place.

I almost bought a TC black diamond sight unseen because of the reputation, but when I found one in a gun shop, I realized the stock was too short for me. My thumb was in contact with my lower jaw when I shouldered the weapon...I really didn't want to pull the trigger on a stout load like that.

Basically, try and handle any weapon that you are interested in and make sure that that it fits you. Just because someone else likes it doesn't mean it is the best choice for you. Knight and Thompson Center make great muzzle loaders but there are other good ones out there also.

FWIW, my 700ML will be at least semi-retired now, my home state has outlawed inlines...Side hammers, loose powder, and patched balls or conicals are the new rules.

RE: Educate me...

Blazin270 — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:09:16 GMT

pabowhunter (12/18/2007)

I looked at the Omega pricing, what's the benifit of the pro hunter version. Is it only the stock or is there more?

I'm not totally sure...I tend to look keep my weapons until they expire or a need for a more defined purpose one. As with anything else the technology / new models come out every year.
It looks like the only difference is the stock and the 28" barrel length.

Take a look at this maybe it will help?http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/proHunterMuzzleloaders.php

RE: Educate me...

pabowhunter — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:46:49 GMT

I looked at the Omega pricing, what's the benifit of the pro hunter version. Is it only the stock or is there more?

RE: Educate me...

Tedicast — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:37:29 GMT

[quote]xOZx (12/14/2007)

This is what I'm leaning towards...other than the pattern, I cannot talk myself out of it.

[/quote]

That would be my recomendation. Could always get it in black or walnut if you are dead set against the RT. I would recomend stainless personally.

RE: Educate me...

Blazin270 — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:19:46 GMT

[quote]NerdHick (12/14/2007)

I'm shooting the CVA Kodiak 209 Mag.

Not the top of the line smoke pole but she sure works for me. I don't use a scope, just the fiber sights it came with.

* 28" Barrel in .50 Caliber

* 1:28" Twist Rifling

* Blue or Nickel Finish

* Ambidextrous Solid Stock in Black or Mossy Oak® Camo

* Fiber-Optic Sights

* Stainless Steel 209 Breech Plug

* 7.5 lbs. Total Weight

* 14.375” Length of Pull

* CrushZone™ Recoil Pad

* Drilled & Tapped For Scope Mounts

* Lifetime warranty
[/quote]

Awesome Choice for the money and reliability for sure! Put a scope on it and you'll have a tack driver

RE: Educate me...

NerdHick — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:21:25 GMT

I'm shooting the CVA Kodiak 209 Mag.

Not the top of the line smoke pole but she sure works for me. I don't use a scope, just the fiber sights it came with.

* 28" Barrel in .50 Caliber
* 1:28" Twist Rifling
* Blue or Nickel Finish
* Ambidextrous Solid Stock in Black or Mossy Oak® Camo
* Fiber-Optic Sights
* Stainless Steel 209 Breech Plug
* 7.5 lbs. Total Weight
* 14.375” Length of Pull
* CrushZone™ Recoil Pad
* Drilled & Tapped For Scope Mounts
* Lifetime warranty

RE: Educate me...

xOZx — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:04:03 GMT

This is what I'm leaning towards...other than the pattern, I cannot talk myself out of it.

RE: Educate me...

pabowhunter — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:07:57 GMT

I'm all ears to. I have a flint for late season and really enjoy it. I see and hear a lot about inlines and interested in buying my first.

RE: Educate me...

NY911Bowhunter — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:18:02 GMT

I too am thinking of taking the plunge!

I know I want a nice ML with a scope - which will obviously be a Vortex Scope.

Drop name brands boys - specific models...the whole 9

RE: Educate me...

cayotekiller — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:09:31 GMT

First and foremost Pa_Ridge's advice is the first thing you need to look at before you even start shopping.My advice is go to a shooting range right before you state ML season opens up and just hang out,somebody(s) will show up sooner or late to make sure their ML's are still sighted in properly,ask to shot theirs,everybody likes to show(brag)on their toys.Everytime I take mine seems like 8 or 10 people want to shot it..lol
Getting into ML hunting,my best advice is shoot what you can afford to start with,who knows you might not like'm.On a side note to that,remeber you get what you pay for,real cheap means cheap performance.So far in my ML history,I've had a flintlock,a bunch of side(caplocks),some good some bad,2 on the bottom of rivers(lousy rifles,so I deep sixed them instead of selling them ).
I personally have a stainless Encore for all the reasons FLCracker stated.To me it's the best of the best.But I also have family that use Knights,Omega's,sorry guys but you couldn't give away a CVA to anyone in my family,we've had to many bad ones(like the 2 in the river I had),but to be fair we haven't shot any of the new inlines,so maybe they have improved.Back to advice...
Rings and bases....I can not stress this enuf,get really good ones to begin with,you'll be so much happier that you did.I have about a Cnote tied up into mine,use a good scope! Nikon,Leopold,Swift,TC,High end Simmons,do not use a Tasco at all;it will not take a beating and hold up to a ML(ask me how I know...lol)
Powder...again it will boil down to what you like best,after you shot some of them and after you clean a ML a bunch of times.I used to be a diehard Pryodex fan,still am to a extent,but I have switched to Thriple 7(777) just because it cleans up the easyest out of all the brands out there(what can I say,I'm lazy!)
Range....most good inlines will realisticly reach out to 200(some a little more)yards.
Loads....100 grains of powder(2 pellets)are more than enuf to take down a deer,150 grains is max load with pretty much all new inlines regardless of who makes them(but Thompson Center came up with it first,read=Encores)150 grains(3 pellets)is just brutal on your shoulder after the 4th shot at the range(trust me,I ain't recoil shy),but if your 6'6: and over 200 lbs,it won't probably bother you at all...lol
Again best advice go to the range,somebody will show up sooner or later,have fun,be safe

RE: Educate me...

PA_RIDGE_RUNNER — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:52:26 GMT

xOZx first of all read thoroughly your states regs on the use of front loaders. Also check out any state you may plan on using that front loader in. Some states have some pretty restrictive rules on what you can use. Colorado is one of them. It would be tough luck to choose a muzzleloader, work up a load only to find you are not legal. You will also need to work up your best load for whatever rifle you choose. I have seen muzzleloaders of the same make and model like a different powder/bullet combo.

RE: Educate me...

Blazin270 — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:52:42 GMT

Thompson Omega not consistent shooter? Huh. I'm gonna have to beg the differ on that one! This will be my fourth season with mine, and It's the best muzzleloader I've owned hands down. The only thing I found with mine was that it did'nt like the powerbelts. The only round I shoot is the XTP 245 sabots, and it's a hole cutter zeroed at 100. I've folded six deer with it....Three neck shots at 50-75yrds.....I'll keep it

RE: Educate me...

INBowhunter — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:08:41 GMT

[quote]FL_Cracker (11/26/2007)

And smokeless powder can't be used in ANY muzzleloader. It has to be sealed in a cartridge. Pyrodex and 777 aren't smokeless powder. They are acceptable black powder substitutes in pretty much every state nowadays...
[/quote]

Check out the Savage MLII, as well as a few other smokeless muzzleloaders on the market. Savage has a forum with a ton of info for their ML shooters.

RE: Educate me...

FL_Cracker — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:02:25 GMT

I don't know man...the Thompson Omega is a solid gun. If I could've afforded one when I got my inline, I would've gotten an Omega or an Encore. I've shot them with iron sights and was getting impressive groups. I think most inlines are pretty accurate, as with any black powder or centerfire gun you have to experiment with the proper bullet and grainage combination.

And smokeless powder can't be used in ANY muzzleloader. It has to be sealed in a cartridge. Pyrodex and 777 aren't smokeless powder. They are acceptable black powder substitutes in pretty much every state nowadays...

RE: Educate me...

dragonslayer1 — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:20:43 GMT

There's a lot of decent blackpowder guns out there nowadays, things have changed dramatically since Tony Knight's first inline. I have shot a Knight .50 for years. Killed a truck load of deer and hogs with it and have never lost one. It will still shoot two inch groups at 100 yards. My 16 year old son shoots a .45 CVA and has killed about a dozen deer with it as well. It is just as accurate as my Knight with the right bullet-powder combination, but is definitely more picky in that area. The .45 will shoot flatter, but not enough to make a difference in most hunting situations. If you go with a .45, shoot bullets of at least 200 grains or you will not get an exit on most deer. The smaller bullets kill just fine, but with no exit, blood trails are skimpy at best. I shoot every hog in the head. No trailing and no bloodshot meat is nice. The Barnes copper solid bullets do nasty things to a hog's noggin. My Knight is topped with a Leupold 2x7 vari-x 2. Leupold scopes are hard to beat. Buy the best optics you can afford and you won't be dissappointed. Leupold also has an unbeatable lifetime guarantee.
I've had several friends who were dissapointed with the TC Omega's poor accuracy. I know all the T.V. boys shoot 'em, but my buddies have all sold theirs. Also be careful shooting smokeless powder in a muzzleloader, it's not legal in every state, neither are the electrically fired rifles.
209 primered guns are the norm nowadays with good reason. Before buying a particular gun, read all the reviews you can. God bless and good hunting

RE: Educate me...

FL_Cracker — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:08:22 GMT

Muzzleloading is the way to go. Down here, it's one of the best weeks of the whole season.

I've been shooting black powder rifles, traditional and in-lines for about 13 years now and have shot a lot with all the civil war reenacting, living histories, and competitions I've shot in.

Some things I would recommend for a front-stuffer for a noob....

*Get a break open action.
*Get one with the 209 shotgun primers.
*Use 777, one hundred grains is more than sufficient for distances out to 150 yards. Pellets are accurate and consistent, using grains is even better as you can customize your loads for max effectiveness.

As far as brand names, if you are really gonna do it up and have the $$$, get a Thomson Center Encore. That is the Premier Muzzleloader, plus you can buy other barrels and what not to switch up the caliber and turn it into a centerfire rifle...

If you're looking for a relatively cheap set up and wanna spend like $200 to get everything you need and get a reliable setup that will last you for years...

Go to walmart and buy one of the Traditions kits. I got the Tracker kit last year, it came with a scope, bullets, lube, everything but powder for $200. I took it out of the box and shot three shots at 50 yards in a 1 inch group without making any adjustments to the scope. They sell a different kit that is a break open gun, and I really would recommend that as it will make life a lot easier.

Feel free to PM me or post up if you have any specific questions...

That's good enough for government work....

RE: Educate me...

INBowhunter — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:57:18 GMT

If I were to buy a front-stuffer today, it would be a Savage smokeless. If it had to be a blackpowder, it would be a TC Omega topped with a Nikon Omega scope.

RE: Educate me...

Blazin270 — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:04:14 GMT

The new blackpowder guns have come a long way in the last few years. I would say to definitely go with a 50cal. Most of them on the market are inline models which seems to be the way to go for reliable firing and ease of cleaning.I use 2 50gr pellets and a 245-300gr bullet which there are tons of options for rounds, and the 209 primer which is actually a shotgun primer that's really reliable. A 200yrd shot is no problem with the setup I mentioned. I have a Thompson Center Omega (scoped) that is a deadly shooting gun, But CVA has alot of nice ones that are quite a bit less money and are just as accurate....Some Walmarts carry them for around $200 for the complete setup scope and all.

Educate me...

xOZx — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:35:18 GMT

I really don't know much about black powder guns, but I am very interested in learning. I figure I'll get one to practice with by next summer so I can use it in the '08 season.

It seems .50 cal is pretty much the nom these days. Fellas seem to run 100 grains but are able to run up to 150 grains of powder.

What kind of range do these have? I guess if you stay inside of 100 yards you can go with open sites if you like?

I s one brand typically perfoming as well or better than another? Is a "feel" sort of thing like bows?

So lets hear it fellas, what do you all know about black powder guns?